This morning, I had a conversation with Malcolm. He and I, although sharing the same Core values, disagree on one funamental point. He believes humans should be trusted above institutions. And I believe humans are the reason institutions cannot be trusted. Our understanding of the system is based on the nature nurture argument. He believes the system corrups human. I believe the human corrupts the system. It was thus not a surprise when, after i posted a quote from yet another unsourced author, arguing that without the source, this quote was as much as useless, Malcolm disagreed with me. The quote was as follows:Here is the discussion that followed.Malcolm James Keenan Evidence lies in Nazi Germany. Hitler was revoking the Jews’ rights years before he lead them onto the train. A good 5-8 years of false-flags and abolishing rights in the name of National Security.
Mahault Albarracin Sure. Evidence. But from which source. I need a source. Because I can say that Nazi Germany was also experimenting on puppies to find ways to weaponize them (which may be true, and was true for Pavlov), but that’s just me saying stuff. Not actual evidence. I agree with this quote, but I want a source telling me that this guy actually either said or wrote it.
Malcolm James Keenanhttp://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/1899.Howard_Zinn
Mahault Albarracin those aren’t sources… sources indicate what book or document that he has written has this particular sentence in it. or a video, in which you see him saying it. actual evidence that these sentences come from him. saying « i’m hungry » -gandhi isn’t a source. saying « i’m hungry » – Mistilis, M., (1916) Interview with gandhi, 15th august 1916. India’s digest, Vol 3, 32-33. that’s a source. because i can go check by myself that it has been written in a peer reviewed journal, or in a credible published magazine. or even in a book (although, that is not the way you quote books, but APA, ShmAPA. )
Mahault Albarracin well, the google link you sent me is basically this image, on a different format. so not a source. i’m not saying he didn’t say it. i’m saying there’s no way to find this sort of image credible if the people making it insist on stooping at the level of inspirational cat images… I haven’t read Howard Zinn’s books, si i honestly don’t know.
Garfield, E. (2006). Citation indexes for science. A new dimension in documentation through association of ideas. International journal of epidemiology, 35(5), 1123-1127.
(you can actually check that this article exists, and that my statement is NOT in it)
Malcolm James Keenan The link I sent you has references, just not for that specific quote. But when you google it, you see more than just this link. People dont take the time to post sources much anymore, so I feel its no one else’s responsibility than your own to validate it.
Mahault Albarracin well then, i stand on the other side of the fence where i don’t believe every thing that is said to me, and thus if i started checking every statement, i wouldn’t do anything, ever… so when i speak, i quote and cite my sources, because i have to prove i am credible. if people do not do it, i take it they are not, in fact credible. but that’s not something we have to agree on, it’s just our differing opinions.
Malcolm James Keenan I’m grateful that I’ve taken the extra effort to validate or discredit sources on my own. It helps paint a clearer picture amidst a sea of dis/misinformation. I agree that citing sources adds credibility but I don’t just dismiss what someone said just because the sources are missing.. It takes very minimal effort to check it out for myself, and usually ends up leading me to other paths of knowledge or information.
Mahault Albarracin in the sea of information internet contains, it is actually very hard to find a credible source. if it takes you minimal effort to validate an information, you’re not doing it right. for instance, you know that you need air to breathe. i know that we need air to breathe. but finding a credible, recent source that says that explicitly is really hard!! you may argue that if i know it, why do i need a source? well, because sometimes the things that we know for sure, are not true. so, yeah i can research myself. but that takes some time that i don’t need to take. if you’re unwilling to prove to me that you are credible, i won’t just give you the credit, and do that work for myself. i’ll just dismiss your words, in the same lazy way that you did not cite your source. once again, it’s not something we have to agree on. it’s just different standpoints.
here’s a source saying we need air to breathe, although that’s not explicitly what the article says, so technically, i can’t really quote it.
Saxon, A., & Diaz-Sanchez, D. (2005). Air pollution and allergy: you are what you breathe. Nature immunology, 6(3), 223-226.
Mahault Albarracin Mutlu, G. M., Garey, K. W., Robbins, R. A., Danziger, L. H., & Rubinstein, I. (2001). Collection and analysis of exhaled breath condensate in humans.American journal of respiratory and critical care medicine, 164(5), 731-737.
this one’s closer to the goal. i think… read it and tell me
And this is where the conversation ended.What do you think?where does the responsability of credibility lie?Is it within the writer, or the reader?
Tell me all!!!!
Here’s a little something from my friend Malcolm. He writes poetry, and creates music. I like to share a little of what he does. Along the way, i will share more poetry from different artists and kind souls. If you have something that you are really proud of, send it to me, and i’ll publish it.
His facebook page is: https://www.facebook.com/MalcolmsGuitarLessons?fref=ts
Lessons in Letting Go
You slip down a deeper well than you thought possible
Descending, pretending you’re still somehow in control
But at the bottom, the waves crash and the silence rings
Forevermore you’ll slip, never knowing where you’re going
Never knowing where you’ll end up
And unsure of how you started slipping in the first place
You grasp. It’s all you can do. The fear is too much, so you grasp.
Sooner or later, though, you’ll find
That what you’re grasping on to
Is also slipping. It’s slipping with you.
And nothing around you is set. It all slips with you.
Faster and faster, till you have no bearings
Always fearing the water and dead silence
You try to escape. Plausible and impossible.
There’s nothing left for you to do
You fear the bottom
You fear the outcome
So much that you forget you’re even falling
You forget. Everything is stagnant
But you’re still falling
Everything is changing
Everything is moving
You are moving
You are changing
And when you’re done falling
And you realize.
You realize that you were the well
All along. You were the well.
You are the well.